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    Breeders BEWARE !!!!

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    Admin
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    Post by Admin on Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:51 am

    This is the best place as it is viewable by everyone and not just members. Due to the last couple of years of dirty linen being aired in public lots of people are put off by the just plain nastiness of some of the people involved in this breed, so they may not wish to get involved in any way, however they will be able to view the info Lyn has given, and hopefully get in touch, hope he finds a genuine forever home this time that is able to give him the amount of time, training and input needed.


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    Post by Geri on Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:57 am

    Lyn I cannot even imagine what you are going through over Beowolf . Maybe the owner was reluctant to come back through you as she may feel as she has let you down with not being able tokeep up with the training x (this is just my opinion ) Them on the flip side she may need the money as she has advertised him for £650 which in my opinion is a lot of money for a dog that you are taking on with problems .
    My thoughts are with you at this time xxxxx

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    Post by Guest on Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:20 am

    Thank you for your kind thoughts Geri, I agree that £650.00 for a dog with issues is far too much to pay. You could be right about the admitting to not being able to train/cope but surely one would put aside their pride for the love of their dog.
    I have always made it clearly be known that I am here for my pups and no matter how old they get I will always help wherever I can.
    Like I have said in one of my above posts, I understand that peoples circumstances change and some have done with a few of my pups in the past but I have always been included or told by the owners. I just feel so betrayed and feel that there is more to this tale than has been told. Sad

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    Post by Casandra on Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:09 am

    Hope Beowulf gets himself a REAL loving home.
    I have a problem dog but he is here for the duration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    however long that may be. We just keep working with it.
    My thoughts are with you Lyn - will keep my ears out for any info.

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    Post by Awfal on Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:32 am

    It makes my blood boil. When I think what we have been through with Ben ... and, I have to say, come out the other side reasonably intact with a pretty obedient, well-behaved boy ... literally blood, sweat and tears have been shed over the last year.

    These dogs are so worth the effort ...
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    Post by gbjoce on Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:37 am

    Does not make my blood boil..there were times I nearly gave up on Maska. So glad I didn't but they are a challenging dog and I can understand someone thinking....'I made a mistake'

    Just angry that she does not contact Lyn if she cannot manage...and I do understand that.....just don't want the lad falling in to the hands of someone who wants to make a quick buck out of him through breeding him. I don't remember why or if I ever knew why he should not be bred from but reading her ad, I fear that is the only type of person that might take him on Sad
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    Post by Admin on Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:30 am

    I so agree, I fought to get Zillar back home with me and am only a small way through what is a very long process, all because people either don't listen to advice or decide they know better and go their own way, we get the fall out then. I would'nt expect anyone to pay ANY money at all for Zillar, never mind full price!!! (Despite the fact I paid to get her back!!!) the work and committment involved is tremendous. She is with me until that extra special home is found that will be prepared to put the effort in. That will be payment enough for me, to watch her blossom into the dog she should be.
    Hope Beowolf, in spite of the extortionate price tag, does somehow find that home and those special people.


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    Post by Guest on Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:31 am

    Casandra wrote:Hope Beowulf gets himself a REAL loving home.
    I have a problem dog but he is here for the duration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    however long that may be. We just keep working with it.
    My thoughts are with you Lyn - will keep my ears out for any info.

    Thanks Casandra I really do appreciate yours and all the other guys thoughts and help on here. XX

    Joce, the difference with you and Maska is that you kept me updated, you asked for advise not only from me but from on here on the forum, you also sought help from a respected and qualified dog trainer. Not once in this case have I been contacted about getting such advise.
    All puppies that are bought from The Utonagan Breed Registry breeders have breeding endorsements on them. For some it is because they are only of definite pet quality,others it is because all relevant adult health tests and assessments for the standard have to be done before the restrictions can be lifted.
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    Post by Admin on Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:44 am

    What is really upsetting is that we could help with re-homing him, we have a waiting list of people who are looking for an older dog, and some are experienced large breed owners who are either capable of training or would be able to take a dog on and take them to classes. Obviously the money is of prime importance to Beowolf's current owner, rather than his ultimate fate and long term welfare


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    Post by kachinas on Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:39 am

    Admin wrote:What is really upsetting is that we could help with re-homing him, we have a waiting list of people who are looking for an older dog, and some are experienced large breed owners who are either capable of training or would be able to take a dog on and take them to classes. Obviously the money is of prime importance to Beowolf's current owner, rather than his ultimate fate and long term welfare

    Crying or Very sad I think that last statment is probably the saddest! Sad


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    Post by Admin on Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:00 am

    The whole scenario is very sad Karen, all for the sake of making a few quid out of a dog she either can't cope with or is surplus to requirements because she is bored with him now


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    Post by gbjoce on Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:07 am

    That is just too awful. Admit you can't cope...that is one thing but then your concern must be the dogs welfare not getting your money back....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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    Post by Zena on Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:48 pm

    I am absolutely fuming as I write this!!!!!

    I think its time that you all had time to hear what I have to say about this situation before you jump in with both feet flying and make judgements about me and a situation you clearly have not considered and know little or care little about.

    1. I have not simply got fed up of beowolf and am heartbroken at the thought of selling him. I am only doing this because I honestly think it is better for him due to circumstances which were completely out of my control.

    2. Price. I realise you consider £650 an extortionate price for him and as stated in my fb posts and in private messages I had regarding him the price is negotiable. However neither am I going to just give him away for free. By asking a high price for him - which incidentally is only the same price I paid for him in the first place (and this is with breeding faults which I never chose to disclose to any of you, as this was between me and Lynn and she asked me to keep it confidential which I did) then the only people who will enquire about him are ones that genuinely want him and are prepared for a dog like him and not simply someone looking for a cheap or free wolfy looking dog. I am not money grabbing but at the same time neither do I see why I should just give him away for free because I feel for his WELFARE he would be better in a different home.

    3. I havent contact Lynn about this no, and there were good reasons, which quite frankly I have tried to be polite about online but if you insist on slating me here for this, then lets get it all out into the open.!! Although Ive no doubt my post will just end up being deleted for daring to criticise Lynn. But hey at least I tried.

    Lynn was aware of the breakin that I had and the traumatic effect this had on Beowolf for some time. For a 'so called' caring breeder - where were the emails to myself enquiring how he was, offering help and advice? or the phone calls? I dont have her number incidentally what with my phone being stolen out of my hands during the violent breakin so lost all my contacts. Other than 1 brief email when I had owned him for 1 month, asking how he was, Lynn has NEVER ONCE contacted me herself asking after his welfare. Go back to the posts I put on here about the breakin that I had some months ago. Lynn never bothered to comment there either about it or pm me showing concerns. seems we are supposed to chase her on these things, and again, not sure what good that would do. Lynn has been contacted by another owner that I know expressing concerns about their own puppy with health issues, sent in photos of the problem. Lynn never bothered to reply leading to the impression that she didnt really care.

    In view of this and concerns I had at the time when I went to collect Beowolf I chose NOT to contact Lynn but to try and find him another loving home myself. If you are interested in these reasons which I am not putting online as I didnt think it appropriate then use the phone numbers at the bottom of this post for a frank and honest discussion about it.

    3. I was honest in the advert about Beowolf being un neutered however this is not a permanent situation. if you will care to read this fb post I made some days ago regarding this I addressed this situation when other breeders enquired about that decision.
    Jem 'Titch' Walker Has his breeder offered to help you rehome him? I wouldn't advertise the fact he is still entire either x
    19 September at 14:32 · Like · 3 people

    Loraine Niven Zena their is a section on the forum for older dogs that are being rehomed if you want to put him in there, but agree get in touch with his breeder first xx
    19 September at 14:56 · Like · 1 person
    Zena Doane Koskaforestsiberiancats Hes due to be neutered but was waiting til he was 1 which hes just turned. Havent had chance to neuter yet due to £1000 vet bills for kittens in last 5 weeks
    19 September at 15:26 · Like
    Zena Doane Koskaforestsiberiancats Havent asked his breeder for specific reasons but not oned i will post online
    19 September at 15:26 · Like

    Jem 'Titch' Walker I wasn't being funny by asking its just by saying he's entire will attract the wrong type of people and the breeder if a good breeder should be the first port of call, thats all x
    19 September at 15:31 · Like · 1 person
    Zena Doane Koskaforestsiberiancats no I can understand that. Youre right he should be neutered and when I have more money if he hasnt gone by then he will be, he would be sold with contract stating must be neutered. I just wanted to be honest in the advert about where hes at now
    19 September at 17:22 · Like

    Jem 'Titch' Walker He is lovely, i hope u find him a cracking home x
    19 September at 17:37 · Like

    Beowolf only turned 1 year old on 29th August and he was not supposed to be neutered til he turned 1. Therefore he was due for neutering in September. Same as his brother Hobo who has only just been neutered this month for same reason. The only reason he hasnt been YET is because I have just had to pay out £1000 in vet bills this month to save 3 ailing kittens. (who have now recovered with a lot of time and care from myself). Once the kittens have all left and I have recouped some of the money for kittens from the owners of some of the other kittens who are due to depart in mid-end october then if Beowolf was still with me he would be neutered at that point. had I rehomed him before then it would not be to another breeder and he would go with a contract clearly stating NOT FOR BREEDING. I would also give them full disclosure on health/breeding issues and the reasons why not for breeding.

    4. Beowolf has NOT been left untrained and without the amount of time spent on him. He has a good recall in the park, he obeys me in the house, he is socialised and friendly with other dogs, cats and people. he has walks every day in a very large park 5 minutes walk from my house - plus regular runs out to the countryside. I spent hours researching this breed online and am a member of about 3-4 forums for these breeds of dog. I have also contacted other breeders and trainers of wolf dogs and wolf lookalike dogs to discuss his training and to integrate their techniques. I also contacted my vets about behavioural training for him following the breakin to gain appropriate help for him. before the breakin he was fully house trained, had calmed down in the house, was fully crate trained.

    Whilst you are all so busy judging me for being so callous as to decide ive had enough of him or havent thought carefully about the time needed for this breed of dog or done my research carefully enough, have any of you actually given any thought to his welfare at all in all of this situation? He WAS very happy in this house and was and still is a much loved member of my household.

    However following the breakin which he still clearly remembers and makes him anxious here at nighttimes, checking windows and doors and barking everytime he hears a noise, I am also coping with a teenager who was a happy confident independant 16 year old, who now rings me several times a night when I am at work panicking and crying because she has heard a noise outside and Beowolf is reacting to it, and worrying that someone is going to breakin again while Im not there and physically hurt her. She wont even sleep in her bedroom anymore when Im not in the house but instead sleeps on the sofa downstairs so she is closer to the doors to escape if threatened. I am concerned that beowolf is picking up on all this anxiety from her when I am not there and reacting to it as when I am in the house he does not behave like that at all and is much calmer, and I honestly feel in a different household where he is not surrounded by a panicking teenager THROUGH NO FAULT OF HER OWN!!!!! is making his own anxieties worse. When I have tried re introducing him to his crate he will not be shut in it anymore. He can cope with it with the door unlocked but the minute I lock the door he has panic attacks and has literally injured himself trying to get back out.. I have sought advice on here, other dog forums, from dog trainers, from the behavioural nurse at the vets etc but due to the situation at home it is making it hard to impement any of this when I am not in the house.

    Quite frankly is heartbreaking for me to live in a house where no one feels safe anymore and to watch my beautiful 16 year old daughter turn from a confident bubbly girl into someone insecure and constantly afraid when Im not around and my lovely dog turn from a happy confident puppy into one that is also insecure when I am not around. Unfortunately as I have to work to pay the mortgage to house us all I cannot remain 24 hours a day with them both - although beowolf is very rarely left alone as if I am not in the house then lauren is!

    I SUGGEST YOU RING ME TO DISCUSS THIS HONESTLY FROM MY DECISIONS NOT TO RETURN TO THIS BREEDER AND MY REASONS FOR REHOMING RATHER THAN MAKE SNAP JUDGEMENTS WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE BEST OPTIONS FOR ALL CONCERNED. I AM THE LOSER IN ALL THIS AS IT IS AS I AM FACING LOSING A DOG I LOVE VERY MUCH AND WAITED A LONG TIME FOR.

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    Post by Admin on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:14 pm

    Sooooo.... because you feel Lyn didn't contact enough after the break in, which was obviously a very traumatic time for you, and I appreciate this, you have decided NOT to adhere to the terms of the contract which YOU signed and the contents of which were made very clear to you all along the process of your decision to buy a puppy off Lyn. I know Lyn made everything very clear to you, and to Diane who was with you at the time. There are several people who would have been able to give you her number, one of them being your friend, Diane.
    I too have a dog here for re-homing, which came back to me because the owner did adhere to the contract, yes I have had a very long hard road to bring this dog back from the abyss, but she is ultimately my responsibility because I bred her, and I have no reason to think Lyn would feel any differently. I am, by the way, homing her for free, because I believe she will find a home more quickly and easier, I did have to buy her back, I have had to spend money on her, but that is not the issue, the right home is. I really feel a dog that has issues you describe is not going to find the right person, who is prepared to start again with him, if you are set on getting your price for him. However, just my opinion.
    Maybe wording your advertisement differently, i.e. 'entire but must be neutered....' would have been better.
    Also if you want to re-home Beowulf, who better than the breeder to advise you and find a forever home for him???
    Don't understand the logic of your mindset.
    I can understand you are in the middle of turmoil with your teenage daughter, but Beowulf is the equivalent of a teenager too, and I think you will find that these dogs often have a blip at the age he is, he will be picking up on your daughter's anxiety as he will be very sensitive to her. One of my owners was having SA issues with one of Cariad's sons, we seem to have been able to help her by my sending her a DAP collar,maybe you could try that alongside the plug in diffuser. I still cannot understand why you feel someone should pay to take the problem off your hands though!!!!


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    Post by gbjoce on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:28 pm

    'seems we are supposed to chase her on these things......' Well yes, I would regard it as my roll to contact Lyn if I was having a problem...which I did...many times!!

    Not sure I understand the logic of the price. I would have thought unscrupulous breeders were the very people who could afford the price...they make a lot of money from the pups.

    Personally, I think the least you could do for the lad would be to keep him until you have the money and neuter him. Then at least you know he will not fall in to the hands of an unscrupulous breeder. I don't think a contract just stating that he must be neutered would be enough to cover him in the wrong hands.

    I am not money grabbing but at the same time neither do I see why I should just give him away for free ..........
    well...that says a lot.....
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    Post by Zena on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:34 pm

    As I had sadly hoped I made clear in my reply it is NOT just about whether Lynn chose to contact me following the breakin, there were other reasons, which I am willing to discuss by phone but not post online for all to see. Im the one trying to be diplomatic and confidential here about my reasons not to return him to Lynn especially given you all like to go on about people airing their dirty laundry in public.

    It isnt just about the money, and the price has always been negotiable. I set it high to make sure someone truly interested in helping me contacted me, not just someone who wants a free dog. Whoever answers the advertisement or contacts me online, I will be making it very clear he is to be neutered and as soon as my finances are clear he will be. If necessary I will ask them to wait until after I have neutered him before they collect him.

    I am very well aware Beowolf is a teenager as well and as much as I REALLY do not want to re home him. and if necessary email Diane and ask her about all the conversations I have had with her on this very subject. I am doing so now because I feel it would help him more than staying here in a tense situation.

    Its very sad that people are so quick to criticise without taking the time to fully appreciate the situation or even contacting me privately as I have given them every opportunity, here now and also on facebook by posting my phone numbers to discuss this and my reasons for not returning him to Lynn.

    If people do continue to criticise me then I will have no option but to air it all online which I did not wish to do - For Lynns sake more than my own, because people may not like to hear the things I have to say BUT I have a right to defend myself here and if I must air all the truth for all to hear both here and on facebook then I will.
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    Post by Admin on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:45 pm

    Well, if you don't want to air it all online, why haven't you rung Lyn, or emailed her, to the best of my knowledge and belief she has no idea of any health problems with Beowulf, which is why he was full price incidentally, if there had have been a problem she was aware of, remember all the puppies were vet checked etc., before being homed, then she would not have asked full price. I never even paid for Lona, as I didn't have the money, due to Tawney dying, she waited till I did have the money, and by the way, at that time she barely knew me, so can't see it being relevant.
    I really feel that you can't expect Lyn to be psychic, as soon as any of my owners indicate there is any sort of problem, I am on the job, if I don't hear from them, and sadly not everyone keeps in touch despite my best efforts, then I take it all is well. Lyn has puppies all over the country of all ages, from getting on in years to youngsters like Beowulf, she would have a bill as long as your arm if she was constantly ringing people on the off chance there was a problem.
    As everyone on the facebook thread you have copied onto here says, get in touch with the breeder!!!!
    The first thing I can remember us all agreeing on for many a year!!!!


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    Post by Guest on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:28 pm

    Okay I will keep it brief as I am expecting visitors ( one of my puppy owners is bringing my/their two yr old pup up for his yearly visit Very Happy ).
    June you are right, there is no health issues that I know of that has been unreported to T.U.B.R obviously this does not include the Utonagan POLICE FORCE !
    Zena the only thing that I can think of health wise was your concern that your pup had a short jaw and you sent me pictures. My e-mail to you stated that if your vet found that that was the case then I would buy him back and that I would like a letter from your vet stating either way if he has or has not, I stated that I would pay for that letter as yet I have not received anything. If you are referring to the other two pups concerning their eye tests then do you your worst.
    All I have stated on here is how very upset I am that you have not contacted me about homing him. As for your reasons why you have not contacted me I have no clue as to what I have or have not done. Please feel free to disclose to us all if that is what you want to do.
    I am sorry this post is short but my visitors have arrived. I just did not want folks or you to think that I was ignoring you.
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    Post by Zena on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:40 pm

    ok if you dont want to do this privately then lets air it all. I will also be posting this to facebook if you delete the comments here. But you have been very frank of your oppinion of me and how wrong I am not to contact Lynn so heres my reasons.

    1. I paid full price for Beowolf. Both he and Hobo were sold to us with eye rosettes. (Yes Lynn informed us of this and I accepted it). Beowolf has them in one eye and Hobo has them in both eyes. Lynn informed us that both were same price however sold Hobo to Diane for £100 less. A fact Diane would have told me anyway as there are no secrets between us, however Lynn accidentally gave me the sales receipt for both dogs so I was aware she had lied from the start. She had no reason to lie to me, I would have accepted this as reasonable but resented being lied to. She asked us not to disclose to any of the rest of you the problems with their eyes and I respected that. This is the first time I have disclosed this information.

    2. When we went to collect the dogs they were living in a dirty barn. As a subsequence of this within days of bringing the pups home Diane ended up spending £250 on Hobo who had severe ear mites leading to a bad infection which the vet stated came from living on dirty straw. Lynn was emailed about this at the time and did not care.

    3. The puppies had clearly not been socialised all that much, neither Hobo or Beowolf had spent all that much time in the house. neither had any house manners whatsoever at first and we had to start completely from scratch with their training, teaching them basics like sit, toiletting etc. Contrary to what you may think I have had dogs and young puppies before and responsible breeders do spend some time socialising the pups and giving them basic commands and making a start on toiletting them. Not keeping them out in a penned off section of an old barn.

    4. When we went there it was noticed that Totsie was again sharing a kennel with Harrison despite Lynn stating she would not be breeding them again. I have heard from someone else (not Diane incidentally) that in fact subsequently they did rebreed and not that long afterwards.

    5. Whilst I appreciate that Lynn had not been there that long at that address the conditions were dirty overall which caused me concern. Despite these misgivings I chose to accept Beowolf. She also had a small terrier dog there that myself, Diane and her friend John were concerned over Lynns general manner of reacting to.

    6. Whilst Lynn may not be a psychic I DID post in the forum here and ask for advice that I was experiencing problems with Beowolf due to the breakin.. Yourself and others chose to respond. Lynn did not so she cannot claim she was unaware. I was simply left with the view that she did not particularly care.

    7. Around the same time as this, Lynn was emailed by Diane who was concerned about Hobo and his hips. They jutted out a lot when he was sat down, and compared to Beowolfs he sat completely differently. She shared these concerns and photos of the problem with Lynn who never even bothered to reply back to her. I notice clearly none of you seem to have been aware of these health concerns either so yet again Lynn kept that information to herself. Her vet has seen him and says whilst he doesnt appear to be in any pain from them it may be hip displaysia and she will need xrays to determine this which she has not had time to do.

    Due to these reasons, I decided that I would rehome him myself rather than send him back to Lynn where I was not convinced he would live in good conditions. Lynn has not been open and honest with you here on the forum about the health of these puppies and I have tried to maintain confidentiality over this and my general impressions of Lynns manner with the pups and the state of where she was living and the way she treated her other dogs but as you persist in criticising me and resolutely defending Lynn cos she has had her heart broken over this - not even counting how I feel about the whole situation then let everyone be aware of these facts.

    Im quite sure JK and Laine etc will delight in hearing my impressions of the whole situation but end of the day I had to my mind valid reasons for not sending him back to Lynn and tried to politely explain this to people and this has not been accepted so a longer more truthful explaination is now out there. I will also be sharing this explaination on the various ute forums on facebook for all to see so they too can see why I chose not to contact breeder.

    You all state that you are concerned about beowolf in this and admin states she in fact 'bought' her own pup back and then will give him away free again. Notice I dont see a rush from Lynn to offer the same. At the end of this month when my money is clear again I WILL be neutering him. That was never ever the issue.

    You state I broke my contract with Lynn. If so I did it for the welfare of the dog which above all else must come first.
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    Post by Zena on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:42 pm

    forgot about the short Jaw - another breeding issue :/ this is in fact the one time I did contact Lynn and got a reply back from her.
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    Post by carol on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:36 pm

    okay as this appears to be a fact finding session here are some facts.

    fact one: as having seen a number of lyn's litters at different stages i can say for certain the the puppies are born in the house and not taken outside until they are ready and too big to all bounce around the house. Lyn then brings two or three of them into the house for play time with people.

    fact two: I have never witnessed LYn keeping her puppies on straw. and she infact cleans them out many times throughout the day and i know this as i and my daughter have help with this ritual. And then we get to play with the puppies, always an added bonus if you ask me.

    Fact three: We had pick of the litter which was a choice between Beowolf or Stryder. As Stryder's attitude fit more with our family chose him. Yes we understand that Hobo has Rosettes in his eyes, yes this is true although both Stryder and Beowolf were found to have CLEAR eyes with no issues or pigmentations what so ever.

    Fact four: are you seriously saying Lyn's adult dogs are kept in dirty conditions. I can still still smell the cleaning products from our last visit.

    Fact five: if Totsi has had another litter after this one we are discussing now that would be remarkable and as being close friends with Lyn since getting Merlin i would infact know as i have seen every litter after Merlin's because "I'm a nosey bugger and keep getting more puppies" quote from my daughter.



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    Post by Admin on Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:48 am

    Contrary to Zena's obviously firmly held belief that males and females shouldn't live together, all Lyn's dogs live with a partner of the opposite sex, she keeps a very close eye on things, and immediately any sign of friskiness between them, they are separated. It would be extremely difficult if not physically impossible for Totsie to have had another litter.
    To the best of my knowledge and belief, Beowulf had clear eyes, like Carol says she had the choice between him and Stryder, Hobo did have a small rosette, hence the lower price to Diane. Lyn did inform Zena of the rosette in order to give her the choice, and her response was that she 'wouldn't want a dog like that' or words to that effect, it is a while ago now when the conversation took place. I do remember hearing about Diane's concern about Hobo and his hips, but to date not heard of any x ray results so I assume nothing has been found. In your puppy folder, alongside your contract (remember that?) you will find copies of not only the health tests for the litter, but also copies of the parent's health tests, and their clear eye tests, if Beowulf had a rosette it would show on the litter eye screen test, as the puppies were microchipped it won't be hard to match them up.
    My 2 girls when they came from Lyn were spotless, the kennels were spotless and they smelt clean and defintely weren't carrying any mites of any sort whatsoever. As Carol says (and she has been over there umpteen times as she says) the pups are born inside and do not go out till they are a few weeks old, and even then they come in to get used to household noises. When my girls came to me they were paper trained, and I have no reason to think that the litter they were from was the one and only time she paper trained. As far as I am aware Lyn uses shavings, as I do. Carol's pup, Stryder, came from the same litter, so I think she would have noticed the dirty straw and any infections, first I have heard of it, so can't comment really.
    If you were unhappy with the puppies, the conditions, or contract, you had the choice to turn away and go home, instead you chose Beowulf and signed the contract, therefore committing yourself (in my book anyway) to the terms and conditions of that contract. It is not always the case that a breeder is able to take a pup back, I have twice fostered dogs for re-homing that are not of my breeding, as the breeder was unable to take them due to personal circumstances, that does not mean to say the breeder was not interested in their puppies though, as they made efforts through our network to find someone in the same part of England who would be able to collect the dogs and look after them. If one of my puppies came up for re-homing for whatever purpose at this particular time, I would not be able to take them in, due to Zillar, this does not mean I do not care, it means I would be looking for someone able to help me out due to my personal circumstances at this moment in time. So I am sure, that even if Lyn were unable to physically take him in, she would straight away liase with you as to the best thing to do with Beowulf, and I really doubt whether that would involve selling him off to the person prepared to pay the best price for him, like you say it is HIS WELFARE we are all concerned about, and I do not see how money can really be part of this sad and sorry tale.


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    Post by Zena on Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:13 am

    nothing has come of the xray results for hobo for the simple reason he hasnt had any yet.

    I really cannot comment on the condition of your own pups, only the condition of the pups that I saw. And they definately were in straw in a barn and Diane still has the vet receipts for the ear mite infection so that little fact is not in dispute.

    Beowolf DOES have eye rosettes in one eye as confirmed by my own vet at time he was checked out as a pup. A fact that was made quite clear from Lynn and one of the reasons he most definately was not to be used in a breeding programme. I never said I idnt want him to Lynn. I emailed her to say I had been doing some research into it online and had some questions to ask regarding it. A reasonable thing to do felt as a responsible owner. I was advised by vet before purchase that they were unlikely to cause him problems although would prohibit him from a breeding programme which was not a problem for me as he was never intended for that.

    Price or nto any new owner would be carefully vetted by myself. he is a valued member of my household and I wont release him anywhere unless I was convinced he was going to better circumstances not worst, which was the whole purpose of rehoming him in first place.

    Im well aware you and Carol are good friends of Lynns and expect nothing better of you than to defend her, but I am entitled to my own oppinions on why I did not wish to contact her and return him and I stated them as none of you seemed to be prepared to accept me at my attempt to be discreet.

    I was not the only person that went that day to collect a pup and not the only one holding this oppinion of the state of the place or the conditions of the pups. perhaps it was a one off the condition of these pups compared to her other litters, but I really wouldnt know not being a regular there and based on my own impressions I was not happy returning him.

    You still havent found a way of justifying Lynns lack of response to myself over his troubles before which she would not need to be psychic over as would have seen on the forum, or over her lack of response over Hobos hips. She may have discussed her concerns with you, she certainly did not with Diane.

    I have no wish to get into an argument over all this and did not in the first place but was not prepared to stand back and watch myself get criticised when people did not have the full facts. I tried to avoid going into gory detail as I felt that was between Lynn and myself but yourselves forced the issue.

    All I have tried to do is get on with quietly finding a responsible loving new home for my dog.
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    Post by Admin on Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:34 am

    I can't comment on Lyn's response or the lack of it, because that is between you and Lyn. Is your vet an eye vet then, as only an ophthalmic vet would be aware of any eye rosettes, and I find it strange that we have paperwork saying he has clear eyes and Hobo didn't, Carol would have seen the paperwork for him and would herself have been aware if he had a rosette as she had a choice of him or Stryder. I wasn't there so wouldn't know, but like I have already said you will have a copy of the BVA litter screening, with all puppies on it so that will tell you.
    If Hobo hasn't had xrays to diagnose HD then I will await the results of the xrays, I know Diane has had a dreadful time with a previous puppy as regards HD so she will be on the alert for anything at all that may mean HD, but which could in reality be nothing at all. Both parents have low hip scores and clear eyes I may add, but it us unfortunate for us all that with the gene for height also carries one of the genes for HD, we are now down to a mean average of 18 so it does show we are travelling in the right direction as regards HD. As it has by no means been eradicated in either the GSD or Labrador, despite many dogs achieving 0;0 scores and them working at it for many more years than we have, it will be a long time before we rid ourselves of it completely, if ever.
    If either of you were so unhappy with the conditions the puppies were kept in then why on earth did you buy one and sign a contract??? I think walking away without one, as we advise, would be the best way to go. I find it difficult to understand how other people I have known who have been to Lyn's for puppies over the years have never ever made the comments you have made about the conditions they were kept in, nor their physical health. I can only go by these experiences and my own which are contrary to yours.







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    Post by Jazz on Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:30 am

    right now the dog is the concern. As you have stated you didn't contact Lyn but you could have contacted other members on the forum to help with the situation as June has said everyone on the forum here would help in finding somewhere. That was the only thing that the threat was about as the contracts for TUBR do state that if any circumstances arise the breeder should be the first call. whatever your issues with lyn are i think everyone should be focusing on the dog.

    How about we put the childish behaviour aside and focus on what we can do for this dog?

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